?

Log in

No account? Create an account
My very brief response to the LJ vs. fandom craziness - Light One Candle

> Recent Entries
> Archive
> Friends
> Profile

Other Places My Fics Are Archived
FanFiction.Net
The CalSci Library (A Numb3rs Gen Archive)
The Invisible Man Virtual Seasons
The Sugar Quill

August 9th, 2007


Previous Entry Share Next Entry
04:06 pm - My very brief response to the LJ vs. fandom craziness

Dear LJ,

Some of your so-called PR reps are making you look very bad. You might want to look into that. But I understand why you've been making a stink about the types of fandom activities you have.

I don't plan to leave anytime soon. And while I think that some people are demonstrating mature concern in, for instance, ditching their paid accounts for unpaid (as ladybrick says she may do), I don't necessarily think I need to do that, either.

The line between censorship and responsibility is a fine one, and I'm more than willing to cut you some slack, LJ.

(Not so much you, 6-Apart.)

Tolerance, if not love,

Me



Dear Fandom-in-general,

Let me get this straight. Some people posted sexually explicit (possibly pornographic) art and manips featuring underage fictional characters and got kicked off LJ for it. Also, LJ can't read its own TOS.

Does any of this actually surprise you?

I thought y'all took pride in being subversive elements, anyway. You don't want the controversy that goes along with that? Fine, leave LJ.

I'm staying right here, where I've established myself and made friends. If you all leave, I'm not chasing after you. I love fandom, but that exists wherever two or three fen gather, so I've got that if I can make it to the local Browncoats meeting.

Just--please. Don't blow this so far out of proportion that you kill the fun we're supposed to be having.

Wearily yours, as ever,

Me

Current Mood: listlesslistless

(17 lit candles | Light a candle)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:brianrubin
Date:August 9th, 2007 11:29 pm (UTC)
(Link)
Well said!
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 10th, 2007 05:53 pm (UTC)
(Link)
*bows*
[User Picture]
From:kalquessa
Date:August 9th, 2007 11:42 pm (UTC)
(Link)
A hearty "hear, hear!" to all of the above. LJ and fandom really know how to made world-class asses out of themselves, don't they? Not too surprising, I guess. One is run by a big company and the other is composed of lots and lots of anonymous people. One of the few things big companies and large groups of anonymous people have in common is that ability to be really, really stupid on a regular basis. The whole thing is worth little more than an eye-roll to me. Maybe an eye-roll and a half. With a resigned sigh, if I'm feeling especially enthusiastic.
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 10th, 2007 05:53 pm (UTC)
(Link)
One of the few things big companies and large groups of anonymous people have in common is that ability to be really, really stupid on a regular basis.

Sadly and unfortunately true.
[User Picture]
From:feliciakw
Date:August 10th, 2007 02:11 am (UTC)
(Link)
I've only an inkling of what's going on, 'cause, ya know, I don't need the virtual drama.

I love fandom, but that exists wherever two or three fen gather,

So, that would be, like, my emergency N3 phone calls in the middle of the work day?

[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 10th, 2007 05:54 pm (UTC)
(Link)
So, that would be, like, my emergency N3 phone calls in the middle of the work day?

Yep. :-) Speaking of which, are you wanting to chat this weekend? You're busy tonight, I assume, with Doctor Who and all....
[User Picture]
From:kerravonsen
Date:August 10th, 2007 05:32 am (UTC)
(Link)
Yep. Some people just Don't Get It.

I thought y'all took pride in being subversive elements, anyway. You don't want the controversy that goes along with that? Fine, leave LJ.

LOL!

I'm staying right here, where I've established myself and made friends. If you all leave, I'm not chasing after you. I love fandom, but that exists wherever two or three fen gather

Amen!
[User Picture]
From:mistraltoes
Date:August 10th, 2007 06:26 am (UTC)
(Link)
I don't know that I believe it's as simple as all that. I completely support LJ's right to host or not host whatever content they prefer. Also, completely not down with the porny art. But since this last debacle, I have to admit that LJ's customer service is atrocious. In at least one case the art in question was not of minors, so there was no reason for the artist to know it would be a problem. And LJ couldn't be bothered to say "take down this picture", or give any sort of warning--they removed every journal she owned, along with every comment she'd ever made on anyone else's journal, even though she had a permanent paid account. So, in effect, a great many users were penalized without warning, as a result of a single offending post that the OP didn't even know was offending. This makes me uncomfortable and a little nervous. I have no present plans to leave LJ, but I really do not trust them any more, and I rather wish I hadn't bought a permanent account.
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 10th, 2007 06:04 pm (UTC)
(Link)
Oh, I'm sure it's not quite as simple as I'm making it out to be. And I don't have a problem with people who are considering the actual issues in a mature fashion. (as you do here, and as a couple of cool heads over on fanthropology have been doing.)

But I do have a problem with the people who are exploding with over-reaction. This post (before I settled myself down a bit) was originally going to say nothing more than GROW THE HELL UP, FANDOM in gigantic font.

I'm not leaving unless I absolutely have to. I spent four years (so far) establishing LJ as my base of online operations; I have friends here; I have archives here; I like the way it's set up; I have a culture here. The thought of all that going away, either because of LJ's stupidity or because of fandom paranoia, makes me really depressed. If I ever leave, I may well leave online fandom altogether, rather than trying to chase after it.

At least, that's how I'm feeling right now.
From:(Anonymous)
Date:August 11th, 2007 12:47 am (UTC)
(Link)
The the-sky-is-falling posts drive me batty; but so is LJ. I like to play by the rules, and right now it just isn't clear to me WHAT the rules are. Until a few days ago, it didn't occur to me that *I* would ever, ever violate terms of service, but now I just don't know. And, as a reasonably well-off middle-aged white woman, I'm used to very little being more than a passing annoyance; if I used what-hurts-me as a litmus test, I'd never have a view on anything...

I came to LJ for fanfic meta, and I'll follow the meta wherever it goes. I'd really like it to stay on LJ! But 25 years ago I was discussing fanfic with my best friend over games of Life, and spending babysitting money on cons; 15 years ago, I was reading rec.art.sf.written and first generation email lists; 5 years ago, it was all Yahoo. I have no clue what I'll be doing in 5 or 10 years.

RE: Paid accounts... I got one because I found some of the ads, esp. the ones for "Adult Swim," offensive. As long as I'm on LJ, I'll probably stay paid. I mean, I boycot Nestle, but if the only thing available to buy is a Crunch bar, I'd rather buy the bar than be visually assaulted and get the bar for free.

- Helen
[User Picture]
From:wneleh
Date:August 11th, 2007 12:54 am (UTC)
(Link)
Oops, that was me.
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 11th, 2007 12:59 am (UTC)
(Link)
Whereas I'm young enough to have mostly dealt with fandom through email lists and on LJ. I've deliberately kept my fandom circle fairly small, so I can actually give it some focus without killing my Real Life--I don't even frequent many non-LJ forums at this point.

I'm just not sure I'll have the energy to chase after fandom if/when it moves. Also, it just really pisses me off that a greater social construct, which I've happily participated in and critiqued, is essentially demanding that I behave like them or find myself on the outside. I'm enough of a loner in Real Life, and part of a sub-sub-sub-culture of fandom (genfic); I've no desire to be even more of an outsider just because fandom decides something.

The move from email lists to LJ was at least somewhat sensible: for ease of use, for networking and communicating, it just worked better.
[User Picture]
From:wneleh
Date:August 11th, 2007 10:41 am (UTC)
(Link)
The move from email lists to LJ was at least somewhat sensible: for ease of use, for networking and communicating, it just worked better.

The other shifts were like this, too. Things like rec.arts.sf.written were so great when they first started. Then with mailing lists, it was like shifting from a large, open free-booze carnival to a party in the large backyard of someone you liked and respected, in that you had a much better chance of developing relationships with others, and there were ways of dealing with complete bozos.

Yahoo gave even more control; so, again, it wasn't so much a decision that first generation lists were bad as that Yahoo didn't have some of the issues of those lists. (I co-moderate a parenting list that moved from first-generation to something else to Yahoo over the years, and is still getting 100 posts a day.)

IOW, it's not a matter of trying to figure out; the shift is obvious when it's happening. (Though the obviousness of LJ wasn't that clear to me for quite a while!)

Also, it just really pisses me off that a greater social construct, which I've happily participated in and critiqued, is essentially demanding that I behave like them or find myself on the outside.

As in, you feel you need to state some sort of sky-is-falling-LJ-how-COULD-you post? Or you're annoyed by the prospect of fandom moving off of LJ because THIS is where you are?

There are times I feel like an outsider in fandom because I'm fond of my husband, I have a good, secure job that I like, and am not (usually) subject to depression... OK, tongue just a *little* in cheek, but...

- Helen

[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 12th, 2007 05:21 pm (UTC)
(Link)
The move from email lists to LJ was at least somewhat sensible: for ease of use, for networking and communicating, it just worked better.

The other shifts were like this, too.


Oh, yes, I didn't mean to imply that wasn't the case--I know enough older fen that I know at least a little about the general evolution of fandom.

I think I meant something like: the other shifts of forums (in general) seem to be based on ease of use, and a growing consensus over that, resulting in said shift. (I mean, mailing lists and Yahoo groups still exist--I use a couple of both to keep track of specialized groups, both in fandom and RL. They're just not as encompassing as something like LJ, right?)

Whereas this possible shift *away* from LJ would be based on dissatisfaction with the company hosting the forum itself; in a sense, it would be the first fandom shift (that I'm aware of) based on a value judgment that I don't necessarily share. I understand the fear that even genficcers like us might wind up randomly offending the TOS, if LJ doesn't get its act together. But overall I'm not too worried, for myself.

As in, you feel you need to state some sort of sky-is-falling-LJ-how-COULD-you post? Or you're annoyed by the prospect of fandom moving off of LJ because THIS is where you are?

LOL. Possibly more the second one, though I'm aware of how self-centered (and self-pitying) that is.

And re: your comment about being an outsider in fandom--lol, yes, me too. Except I guess I'm less of an outsider, being single and all. ;-)
[User Picture]
From:wneleh
Date:August 11th, 2007 11:06 am (UTC)
(Link)
Also, it just really pisses me off that a greater social construct, which I've happily participated in and critiqued

Playing off of this... what do you think this means about what fandom wants? (Besides a good panic?) I'd have said that any rules LJ sets that permit the stuff that I write - yk, friendship-focused gen using characters I didn't invent - would be fine. But since I'm in this for the meta, and most meta touches upon slash, and many people who write very tame slash have friends who write other stuff (heck, I have friends who write a variety of stuff)... I think my point is, there's chains of friendship and most of the people who contemplate fandom may have to find a new center. So maybe there WILL be a split between types of fic writers, but I can't see a clear line to tear along... maybe a gen-slash division like in TS, but a lot of fandoms are a lot more complex.

Hummm. I do think, stepping back a little, I could learn a lot about what makes fandom important to people from this.



[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:August 14th, 2007 06:48 pm (UTC)
(Link)
Interesting question! I've been pondering this since you asked it, and I'm not sure I have a good response yet. (Except to wonder if we might get an explicit/non-explicit divide rather than slash/gen over this.)

Have you thought about posting soemthing like this on fanthropology? I think some of the people there would be all over this question, and I'd love to see the discussion that might develop among people who know fandom's patterns as a whole better than I do.
[User Picture]
From:wneleh
Date:August 15th, 2007 09:19 pm (UTC)
(Link)
A good idea! I'm buried right now, but I may try to formulate something once I come up for air.

- Helen

> Go to Top
LiveJournal.com