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April 9th, 2010

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12:13 am - Supernatural notes
I really haven't done much in the way of reaction posts for SPN this season, partly because I know other people will do it better, partly because I'm still (for the most part) happy with how the plot arcs and characters are being handled and I have no desire to allow internet fandom to tell me what I should or shouldn't love about my shows.

I think "Abandon All Hope" is the only ep I did a post for, and it was brief but approving.

I have a few comments, now, from earlier in the season (including 5.16), and then a couple of notes about tonight's quite impressive installment.

"Good God, Y'All" = \o/ , mostly because as soon as the omens around the town were mentioned I sat up and started saying "OMG THE HORSEMEN ARE COMING!" It's fun when one's Bible reading becomes relevant to one's fannish interests in that direct a fashion. :) Also: Ellen and Jo! (And a pastor trying to learn to kick demon butt, which comes up again later in the season and to me makes total sense.)

"The End" killed me dead. Fantastic. I hope Cas never falls that far, though. That was so wrong to watch. Almost uncanny, in the "uncanny valley" sense.

Sam and young!John in "The Song Remains the Same." Brilliant. Michael also brilliant, especially with John as his vessel. Cas!whump becomes one of my new favorite fic flavors after this. (special thanks to caffienekitty )

I normally empathize mostly with Dean, being myself an eldest child with similar issues. But during "Dark Side of the Moon" I found myself both feeling bad for Dean and wanting to tell him to get a grip and let it go, because Sam does not owe Dean a life of devotion. That was Dean's gift to Sammy; and it's Sam's gift to Dean now. Sam understands Dean's hurt, better now than before; and Dean needs to understand Sam's, and let. it. go.

(Sam totally pulled the amulet out of the trash. He's got it in a pocket or something. THIS IS TOTALLY CANON.)

I'm also not displeased with the God stuff in DSotM. Free will has been a huge deal in this show from the start; God's intervention is mostly through the hands of people doing his will, such as the Winchesters. We got confirmation that it was, in fact, God who saved the boys from Lucifer and resurrected Castiel and Jimmy, and He hasn't exactly left Earth. I think that He wants Team Free Will to do it. For some reason they're the best suited, and He has helped them as much as they needed, although they may not feel like that right now.

(Castiel's face... When he cursed God, I almost died. Owowowow.)

Thank you, sarcasticval, for pointing out to me that this is, in fact, SPN's 99th episode. The hundredth airs next week. :)

Dear Show,

This goes especially for last week, but this week as well, in a throwaway line: please stop retconning John from father who loved his family far too much into deadbeat dad and total bastard. I thought you had recovered from that trend when 5.13's young!John reminded me so strongly of first season John.

Guess I was wrong.

No love,


Dear Castiel,

The writers can get you drunk and injured anytime. That was AWESOME.




Oh, my heart. Oh, Dean. *clings*


p.s. might not your oath to "serve God and you guys" count to enable you to kill the Whore? you don't have to say yes to Michael. no, really, you don't.

In a slightly less epistolary note (ha), did anyone else see the echoes of "In My Time of Dying" with Dean there at the end? He comes to Lisa and talks to her, is cryptic with her, expresses love; whispers something we don't hear into her ear; refuses to wait to see the other family member, in this case Ben; leaves.

....Hmmmm. That was deeply deliberate.

And I really want to know what he said to Lisa.

Current Mood: pleasedpleased

(4 lit candles | Light a candle)


[User Picture]
Date:April 9th, 2010 11:04 am (UTC)
Re: the God stuff . . . You and I talked about it last week. I totally get what everyone is saying about the Team Free Will stuff. Free will even came to my mind during some of that particular conversation. It's the "God saved you, God saved Castiel, God even let you into Heaven, Sam. He's done helping you. He's finished. Go away" that ticked me off. That's not enabling people to do His work; that's taking away the last shred of hope the hopeless have. (I find it interesting that everyone is so excited that this is confirmation that God saved them all in 5.1, when I don't think I really thought otherwise.) If they do something very cool with what God's doing in the background, I'll be delighted to be proven wrong and will make a post saying as much. :-)

Re: Dean's getting over Sam's heaven memories being without him . . . I can't really blame Dean for his reaction. In much the same way Sam didn't realize how long Dean "had been cleaning up God's messes," Dean didn't realize how happy Sam was to be on his own. And while Sam was just a baby and didn't have any recollection of the time from Dean's memory, Dean most certainly had memories of his own POV for Sam's. Was Zach pulling these memories specifically from Sam's brain? Maybe. But it doesn't change the fact that Sam's first reaction to Flagstaff was joy, and he didn't deny that leaving for Stanford was a good memory (though by that point, he knew he was hurting Dean and wanted to avoid that memory).

Does Dean need to let it go? Um, yeah. (Read back at the beginning of the ep wherein I talk about Dean needing to genuinely forgive Sam.) But given what he's seeing and learning right there, I don't blame him for not being able to process it and let it go right on the spot. (If Dean did, Sam would not have gotten the clue I truly hope he did.)

Re: the amulet . . . I believe I read in a Rome con report that even Jensen thinks Sam pulled the amulet out of the trash. Or, at least he pointed out that Sam had not left the room at the time the end credits rolled. :-) And since he's in the show and they've finished shooting the season, and he's reportedly excited for S6 . . .

Re: John . . . So it's not just me who felt they were ret-conning John? Good to know. I'l mention that in my commentary, but I'm trying to remember exactly what it was that sent Dean to this side of the spectrum. Finding out about Adam and the baseball game, maybe?

Re: Dean saying yes to Michael . . . Yes, yes he does have to say yes. Because much like sending Dean to Hell, they can't not go there. And they can't not give Jensen that kind of ep to play. And quite frankly? I'm lookin' forward to it. (You're shocked, I know.) *g* On the flip side, if they make out his "yes" as being "his destiny," and not his choice, I'll be miffed.

Re: IMToD . . . I did not as readily make the IMToD connection that you did (I was unfortunately distracted at that moment), but I did make it, and I, too, was wondering what Dean was telling Lisa.

Six days and counting . . . . Oh!!!! You think we'll be getting more clips from the 100th ep party as promos for the ep? That would be awesome!

I'll post my usual commentary today or tomorrow. I did like this ep, but I need to watch it again to delve into thinky-thoughts.

In summary: IS IT NEXT WEEK YET?
[User Picture]
Date:April 9th, 2010 10:04 pm (UTC)
That's not enabling people to do His work; that's taking away the last shred of hope the hopeless have.

I understand where you're coming from on this. That was my first reaction as well, and this week's episode would seem to bear it out to an extent.

However--and I realize that I may be approaching this from a perspective that few will share, given the past 2 years I've just gone through--I don't think it has to be read that way. Sometimes the only way to get someone to stand up and do something that they thought they couldn't, or thought they shouldn't, or didn't know how to do, is to take them to the absolute bottom...and leave them there. God was careful to reiterate that He knows what's going on, that's He's seen it all, that He's intervened directly on their behalf several times already. Now He wants them to get on with it, whatever it is.

Painful? Scary? Horrifying? Despair-inducing? Yeah, that moment was all of that.

But I have to wonder: it would have been even easier, in a storytelling sense, to just leave God as the Deadbeat Dad in the Sky. The show could have kept on rolling with that, and I had thought that Kripke was just regretting the whole God thing entirely. Until now. Now...now I kind of think there's a point to all this, and I can't wait to see what happens. (I have ideas, which we can discuss in person if you like sometime. Not sure I want to risk the Wrath of Fandom by airing them here, and they need more thinky anyway.)

But it doesn't change the fact that Sam's first reaction to Flagstaff was joy, and he didn't deny that leaving for Stanford was a good memory (though by that point, he knew he was hurting Dean and wanted to avoid that memory).

I don't care. That's who Sam is, and if Dean's love for his brother is real (and I believe it is, naturally), Dean loves Sam for who Sam is, not because Sam is just like Dean.

We may have to disagree on this one--there comes a time when holding onto one's own pain is more selfish than the actions of the person who inflicted that pain (I'm speaking from personal experience here, btw), and right around now I think we're starting to get there with Dean. I bitch at him because I love the character, and I want him to be able to heal and love without being so shackled to how hurt he's been by those who never meant to hurt him. That's all.

Re: John: no, me and Marie had discussions about that, too. You are not alone. :)

[User Picture]
Date:April 9th, 2010 10:14 pm (UTC)

I wrote: Dean "had been cleaning up God's messes,"

Um . . . that should have been John's messes. I'm not one of these who subscribes to the theory that John is God.

Major typo.

Off to read your reply.
Okay, I've read your reply.

I don't care. That's who Sam is, and if Dean's love for his brother is real (and I believe it is, naturally), Dean loves Sam for who Sam is, not because Sam is just like Dean.

We are going to have to agree to disagree, I think. I don't see Dean's hurt as Dean wanting Sam to be just like Dean. He's mentioned to Sam in the past that he was proud of Sam striking out on his own, of standing up to John. He even said that he sometimes wished he could do the same. He's told Sam that he's stronger than Dean. But when Sam's Heaven memories are of ditching Dean without consideration for what it did to Dean, that hurts, regardless of how proud Dean is of Sam. I don't think Dean's being hurt by the discovery belittles Sam's independence or Dean's admiration thereof at all. But when Dean thought for two weeks that Sam was dead, and didn't hear a word from Sam after he left for Stanford . . . didn't Dean deserve just a little bit better than that?

Of course Dean needs to let go of the hurt, and I've not observed him to be one to hold a grudge. But I'm glad that Sam finally realized what his actions did to Dean. The hurt goes both ways. (And given my current situation, I'm all thinky about this right now.)

I am also thinky about the significance of baseball to one Dean Winchester. But that's a different post.

Edited at 2010-04-09 10:27 pm (UTC)
[User Picture]
Date:April 10th, 2010 01:25 am (UTC)
I'm just kind of tired of the Dean!girls (and I *am* one!) insisting that Sam is at fault, Sam is selfish and is not the one who's been hurt, that Sam owes Dean somehow more than any brother "owes" another, that Sam's pain/life/perspective is not as important as Dean's.

And I know part of it is that I've come through some of my own issues, and I'm trying very hard to come to grips with the truth that no matter what I do, someone could feel hurt by me. But I don't need to worry about that beforehand, nor do I need to allow their hurt to slay me with guilt. If I actually *do* hurt someone, then I can apologize when I realize it, but I don't need to be held back from being completely myself just because I'm afraid other people won't like it. AKA: I have been Dean all my life. Now...I think I'm starting to realize how much I wish I could be Sam.

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