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February 3rd, 2006


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11:10 am - Random minor venting
This is the only time I am ever going to say this, because I generally find it bad form to complain about the way people with opposite opinions express them--and complaining in that fashion about political views is enough to get one flame-broiled around LJ.


I am tired of people with liberal views (*points to co-workers*) pretending like they've interviewed all conservatives and found them to be mentally retarded.

I am tired of people blaming Bush for everything that might be wrong with our country right now, when he is President, not Dictator. Our goverment doesn't work that way, folks.

And I'm tired of people complaining about the current state of things without actually having alternate opinions to offer.

That is all.

This non-rant was brought to you courtesy of Moderate Conservatives in Los Angeles.

Current Mood: cranky conservative
Tags: ,

(23 lit candles | Light a candle)

Comments:


[User Picture]
From:kalquessa
Date:February 3rd, 2006 07:57 pm (UTC)
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Dude, I know. I am not Bush's biggest fan in the whole wide world (I am more conservative than him, generally speaking), but it really is ridiculous the way he is portrayed as simultaneously dumb-as-a-rock and yet capable of complicated evil plans to make everyone everywhere unhappy. (Plus, he has storm powers! He caused Katrina, you know. I wish I had storm powers. That would be totally sweet.)


[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:18 pm (UTC)
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it really is ridiculous the way he is portrayed as simultaneously dumb-as-a-rock and yet capable of complicated evil plans to make everyone everywhere unhappy.

*snicker* You put it so well. :-)

And that icon is milk-up-the-nose-worthy.
[User Picture]
From:fpb
Date:February 4th, 2006 07:10 am (UTC)
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Ah, but, you see, all those evil plans are put up to him by the evil neocons who lurk behind the throne. So it's all right really.
[User Picture]
From:jd3000
Date:February 3rd, 2006 08:48 pm (UTC)
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"If you are not a liberal at 20, you have no heart. If you are not a conservative at 40, you have no brain." --Winston Churchill.

I'm just plainly tired of outright stupidity on both sides. By no means am I pointing to one entire group or even the majority of that group, but I am pointing to the small, vocal subsection, present since politics began, that is not fully aware of everything at stake, has no intention of learning and educating itself as to all sides, and whose sole duty is to promote their side by telling you everything about the opposition is wrong. We had/have our share on NitC. ScottN and I started calling them Dumb Young Activists. People who feel the strong need to get up and take action but with a blissful ignorance of how the system affects everyone.

I hate politics. It's an imperfect system by which imperfect people select more imperfect people in an attempt to produce a perfect society.

-JD
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:23 pm (UTC)
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*adores Winston Churchill*

Dumb Young Activist, mmm, yes. And then there are their counterparts, the Dumb Old Status-Quos. I'm aware, btw, that it isn't just the liberals who can be idiots about politics (far from it), but I've only heard liberals ascribe the other side's politics to straight-up stupidity, and actually mean it. *scratches head* It may just be the Los Angeles breed, though.

I hate politics. It's an imperfect system by which imperfect people select more imperfect people in an attempt to produce a perfect society.

Dude, JD. Go. Watch. Serenity. Now. A nice fictional image of the opposite. [I'm actually starting to think I might be Libertarian rather than Republican, hee.]
[User Picture]
From:jd3000
Date:February 3rd, 2006 08:50 pm (UTC)
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And BTW, despite the non-ranting minor venting, good to see a Gen-u-wine Izhilzha Post (tm). Was thinking of using the Nudge feature, but figured you were busy and might not appreciate it. :-D

-JD
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:24 pm (UTC)
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busy and with an evil head cold, which is now clearing up (thank God).
[User Picture]
From:rose_in_shadow
Date:February 3rd, 2006 09:44 pm (UTC)
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A-men.

I work in state government as one of the persons who answers the phones and listens to people complaining all the time. What I want to know is WHAT in the world are people learning about our government? Half of them think the Governor is some kind of king who can speak the word and give them their child support checks. The other half think he's the president with the power to make their social security disability go through faster. Doesn't anyone know what democracy and three separate branches of government mean?

Grr.

Ahem. Sorry. This is your rant, not mine. Heh.
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:25 pm (UTC)
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Oh, no, rant away. Because seriously, I didn't take enough government or recent history in high school (or so I thought), and yet I seem to know so much more about it than a lot of other people. Or they just want someone to blame, and screw reality. Who'd want to be President, I ask you? :-P
[User Picture]
From:lapinguina
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:12 pm (UTC)
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Even if I'm not personally conservative, I know some people who are that are very intelligent and always have valid things to say. You're one of them. :)

I think part of the reason politics is such a touchy, explosive subject in the first place is because the vast majority of people (liberal and conservative alike) are not intelligent enough to grasp it in the first place. I suppose that's one of the inherent problems with democracy - putting power into the hands of the populace, many of whom aren't cut out for that sort of power.

I don't mean that to be condescending to you or anybody else; we both know there are just as many moronic liberals out there as there are moronic conservatives - IQ and political affiliation are independent variables ;) It's just awful that we have to endure such criticisms and arguments on both sides, when in reality the world would be so much better off if political dichotomies were just eliminated altogether...


I'm not really sure what the point I'm trying to make is, except to reassure you not to listen to those idiots because there are some intelligent liberals out there (like me... on good days, anyway!) who're more than happy to listen to what conservatives have to say and work together with them for the sake of our nation's future. I have many of the same complaints as you about the way people talk about politics, so I assure you it's both ends of the spectrum that behave ridiculously, and I hope you don't think less of all liberals for the actions of a few. :)
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:56 pm (UTC)
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Even if I'm not personally conservative, I know some people who are that are very intelligent and always have valid things to say. You're one of them. :)

Right back at ya, flipping the political leaning. :-)

I do have several intelligent liberal friends...and that's fine, because we can actually have discussions about it all. As opposed to people whom I know are intelligent in most areas, but who start foaming at the mouth when politics comes up. That, on either side, scares me.

IQ and political affiliation are independent variables ;)

I do love having Numb3rs fans on my flist. That's an excellent way of putting it.

when in reality the world would be so much better off if political dichotomies were just eliminated altogether...

*marches with picket sign* "End Partisan Politics! Save America!"

Yeah. I wish. :-)
[User Picture]
From:kerravonsen
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:51 pm (UTC)
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pretending like they've interviewed all conservatives and found them to be mentally retarded.

As has been said, happens on all sides of the fence.

I think it is tempting to ascribe things to stupidity because it's a way of making sense of decisions that appear to be nonsensical from the PoV of the speaker. And because it's kinder than attributing them to malice. ("Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity")

They are wondering why Those Other People don't see things which are bleedin' obvious to them. (And, heck, I wonder that myself, when contemplating the decisions of politicians.) Because if it's something obvious, and they seem to be ignoring it, well, they must be stupid, then. It's the easy, no-thought-required answer. (Wheras my usual answer is to sigh and say, "Well, they obviously don't think it's important when I do..." -- that is, not that they're stupid, but that they don't care. Hmmmm. But it's hard to call John Howard stupid. He isn't. He just doesn't care... (pokes out tongue)) (Oh well, I'm not perfect. Mea culpa.)

The young idealists have a very simple view of the world; they consider that the problems and the solutions are simple, and therefore if their favoured solution isn't being applied, then Those People must be stupid.

Unfortunately, me, I throw up my hands because I fear that there aren't any good solutions. (sigh)
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:39 pm (UTC)
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I think it is tempting to ascribe things to stupidity because it's a way of making sense of decisions that appear to be nonsensical from the PoV of the speaker.

Mmm. And, as you note, because it absolves you of presenting arguments against said apparently-nonsensical POV.

And because it's kinder than attributing them to malice. ("Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity")

I see what you're saying, and maybe this is why I see more liberals than conservatives going this route (the dumb conservatives have no problem labelling their opponents "malicious" or "immoral"). However, I can argue if someone calls my point-of-view or idea "malicious". But if their attitude is "oh, poor thing, she's retarded, don't encourage her," I see red and am severely tempted to black an eye or bloody a nose. When someone puts me beneath them, it feels like they've taken away my voice as effectively as if they'd rewritten the First Amendment.

Unfortunately, me, I throw up my hands because I fear that there aren't any good solutions. (sigh)

Oh dear. :-P Sounds like me. There are *better* solutions, sometimes, but good ones? Not often.
[User Picture]
From:whitemartyr
Date:February 3rd, 2006 10:54 pm (UTC)
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I hope it wasn't my rant that made you write this. Because you know I try to be fair, it's just that sometimes I go a little nuts. :p
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:04 pm (UTC)
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I actually didn't read your rant. :-) It did inspire this, however, because it seems like all the liberals on LJ (who are the majority, apparently) post when they please about such things. I've always tried to kind of be "above" that, the way I do at work, but I've been wanting to say these three things since the election last year, so I figured it wouldn't hurt to just get them out of my system, once. *shrug*

You're Canandian, anyway; you get special dispensation where the US is concerned, which I would not extend to Americans who have no idea how their own government works. *eyeroll*
[User Picture]
From:whitemartyr
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:18 pm (UTC)
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Ahh so you wanted to have your say. Good. I think you should. And you're right. It's not really fair when there's no answer. I hate war, but I don't have an answer for how to deal with terrorists. I won't pretend to think that just saying 'peace on earth' will help because peace on earth isn't gonna happen til Jesus returns, and even then won't come til a whole lot of baddies get burned. LOL. Mostly I'm just nervous about what I can see happening, as an outsider...and that is that it seems like the freedoms of Americans are being stripped away. And that makes me mad...and sad. Because I like many of the foundations and ideas that America was built on.
[User Picture]
From:whitemartyr
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:21 pm (UTC)
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and Bush really, honestly, makes me nervous as a leader because he seems to be too easily influenced by others in government or the military and not enough of his own man. I don't know that all of this badness that's happening is his fault, I mean hey, it's rarely just one man that makes an empire fall (though sometimes it is). I just don't like what I see happening and how paranoid and fearful people are becoming, even if it's justifiable, because of actions taken by Bush's administration and militarily.
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:51 pm (UTC)
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I'm not even going to talk about Bush, because I don't want to argue with you.

I just don't like what I see happening and how paranoid and fearful people are becoming

I don't know where you're getting this, unless you mean the border stuff. I'm as annoyed as you are about the particular circumstance, but there is NOT an atmosphere of paranoia and fear in this country. If you wanted to see that, time warp back to 2001-02. THAT was fear. That was paranoia in the streets. We're adjusting now, and I hear less fear (except from extremes in both parties) now than I have for a while.

I seriously don't understand where this "OMG!Bush is keeping us chained in fear!!!11" thing is coming from--some Democrat politicians were spouting it the other night on the news. As far as I can see, it doesn't reflect basic, current American life. *shrug*

If you actually want to keep discussing this, let's take it to email. I didn't mean this post to be for political discussion, just the expression of a few annoyances.
[User Picture]
From:rose_in_shadow
Date:February 4th, 2006 12:29 am (UTC)
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Just to chime in for the eastern side of the US (Ohio!), there isn't any "atmosphere of fear" here either. THe Press really, REALLY distorts how life actually is and the way that day-to-day people live it.
[User Picture]
From:whitemartyr
Date:February 4th, 2006 12:56 am (UTC)
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You know, maybe it's from watching all the Canadian news...
[User Picture]
From:whitemartyr
Date:February 4th, 2006 02:08 am (UTC)
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I don't think that people are 'living in fear'...in their every day lives. At least not the smart ones. But there is a sense that the government/military is instilling a paranoia that is uncesessary, but which catches like wild-fire with people not a educated as you or I. Though maybe it's the people in government/military that are promoting/feeling the fear because they're the ones most likely to deal with scary things. I don't know.
[User Picture]
From:izhilzha
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:44 pm (UTC)
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it seems like the freedoms of Americans are being stripped away.

You know what? I'm American, and I haven't noticed this yet. Don't think I don't keep a watch on my civil liberties, either; it's always been a fight here, to keep and expand and emend our freedoms. This is just a slightly tougher arena: the dicotomy between keeping our freedom and keeping our safety. There's a balance, but it's a razor's edge.

We got through worse during the Cold War, though.

I'm not that worried...yet.
[User Picture]
From:whitemartyr
Date:February 3rd, 2006 11:48 pm (UTC)
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I'm not that worried...yet.

Hee hee. Well I hope you're right. :) I'll shut up now.

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